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	<title>Comments on: Ethics and the Challenge of Situationist Pyschology</title>
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	<description>forcibly extracting meaning from everything (syncretically)</description>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.objectivelytrue.com/ethics-and-the-challenge-of-situationist-pyschology/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 09:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ahh, so more people will likely choose 3 than 2, though they&#039;re the same thing, because the fat man&#039;s at a distance, removing the immediate emotional element that was present and inhibitive in option 2.

I&#039;ll get back to you soon about India.  Right now, I&#039;m preparing to catch a train and I&#039;ve got to run.  

And I&#039;d like to hear from you too about everything, your process on choosing a future, the philosophy club, work, Will, etc.  Do you think people from the Augie phil club could be convinced to join &quot;subjectively true?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, so more people will likely choose 3 than 2, though they&#8217;re the same thing, because the fat man&#8217;s at a distance, removing the immediate emotional element that was present and inhibitive in option 2.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll get back to you soon about India.  Right now, I&#8217;m preparing to catch a train and I&#8217;ve got to run.  </p>
<p>And I&#8217;d like to hear from you too about everything, your process on choosing a future, the philosophy club, work, Will, etc.  Do you think people from the Augie phil club could be convinced to join &#8220;subjectively true?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.objectivelytrue.com/ethics-and-the-challenge-of-situationist-pyschology/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 21:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.objectivelytrue.com/?page_id=11#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Matt, 
    This was a discussion that came up during discussion about this topic, and I&#039;ll give the same answer that I gave then.  I think Example #3 is an attempt at drawing a finer line between example #1 and example #2 (a later attempt to further refine Phillipa Foot&#039;s original examples).  The important, but subtle, difference here is that in example #1, the death of the portly man is not the *means* by which the people are saved.  In the first situation, the man is not killed as a necessary step in the process of saving the other five; rather, his death is an unintended, albeit foreseen, consequence of the action of saving the lives of the five other people.  In other words, you are acting to save the lives of these five people, and the fat man just happened to be the unfortunate victim of your otherwise laudable method of saving their lives.

In the second example, however, a number of important factors change.  First, and most relevant, the death of the large man is the direct means by which you save the lives of the five individuals.  His death is not an unintended consequence of a laudable means, it is a despicable means through which you seek the better of two regrettable consequences.  However, this scenario also changes how personal we get with the subject, and it &quot;dirties&quot; the hands of you as the moral agent a little bit more.

Thus, example #3 seeks to preserve the choice between using the regrettable and perhaps morally disgusting use of the death of one as the means by which others are saved, without getting up-close-and-personal with the fat man.

Does this fine-line distinction end up mattering at all?  Perhaps surprisingly, the answer is yes.  Different proportions of people answer each of these different scenarios differently.  Not only that, but functional MRI brain scans of persons indicate that different parts of the brain are active depending on which of these situations they examine.  In &quot;personal&quot; moral situations, like the bridge scenario for example, people tend to have more active emotional responses, and they are much less likely to kill the portly man.

Thanks, by the way, for taking a peek at the article.  It&#039;s unfortunate that you couldn&#039;t have been present for discussion.  I&#039;d love to hear more about the article you&#039;ve gotten your hands on, or anything else you&#039;ve been studying or doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,<br />
    This was a discussion that came up during discussion about this topic, and I&#8217;ll give the same answer that I gave then.  I think Example #3 is an attempt at drawing a finer line between example #1 and example #2 (a later attempt to further refine Phillipa Foot&#8217;s original examples).  The important, but subtle, difference here is that in example #1, the death of the portly man is not the *means* by which the people are saved.  In the first situation, the man is not killed as a necessary step in the process of saving the other five; rather, his death is an unintended, albeit foreseen, consequence of the action of saving the lives of the five other people.  In other words, you are acting to save the lives of these five people, and the fat man just happened to be the unfortunate victim of your otherwise laudable method of saving their lives.</p>
<p>In the second example, however, a number of important factors change.  First, and most relevant, the death of the large man is the direct means by which you save the lives of the five individuals.  His death is not an unintended consequence of a laudable means, it is a despicable means through which you seek the better of two regrettable consequences.  However, this scenario also changes how personal we get with the subject, and it &#8220;dirties&#8221; the hands of you as the moral agent a little bit more.</p>
<p>Thus, example #3 seeks to preserve the choice between using the regrettable and perhaps morally disgusting use of the death of one as the means by which others are saved, without getting up-close-and-personal with the fat man.</p>
<p>Does this fine-line distinction end up mattering at all?  Perhaps surprisingly, the answer is yes.  Different proportions of people answer each of these different scenarios differently.  Not only that, but functional MRI brain scans of persons indicate that different parts of the brain are active depending on which of these situations they examine.  In &#8220;personal&#8221; moral situations, like the bridge scenario for example, people tend to have more active emotional responses, and they are much less likely to kill the portly man.</p>
<p>Thanks, by the way, for taking a peek at the article.  It&#8217;s unfortunate that you couldn&#8217;t have been present for discussion.  I&#8217;d love to hear more about the article you&#8217;ve gotten your hands on, or anything else you&#8217;ve been studying or doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.objectivelytrue.com/ethics-and-the-challenge-of-situationist-pyschology/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.objectivelytrue.com/?page_id=11#comment-5</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m having a bit of a hard time understanding the fat-man-on-the-loop scenario.  How does it differ from the first scenario?  Just presentation, or does the loop give him time to make his own choice?  If it&#039;s his own choice, then I suppose it would excuse you from actually having to make a choice to pull the switch. Pulling the switch would pass on the problem.  But if he wouldn&#039;t have a choice, if it wouldn&#039;t give him enough time, I don&#039;t see how the presentation significantly differs from that of the first scenario.  
But I love the way you&#039;re playing around with this Jackson!  I&#039;ve got an excerpt of an article one of the profs here is working on that you might enjoy..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m having a bit of a hard time understanding the fat-man-on-the-loop scenario.  How does it differ from the first scenario?  Just presentation, or does the loop give him time to make his own choice?  If it&#8217;s his own choice, then I suppose it would excuse you from actually having to make a choice to pull the switch. Pulling the switch would pass on the problem.  But if he wouldn&#8217;t have a choice, if it wouldn&#8217;t give him enough time, I don&#8217;t see how the presentation significantly differs from that of the first scenario.<br />
But I love the way you&#8217;re playing around with this Jackson!  I&#8217;ve got an excerpt of an article one of the profs here is working on that you might enjoy..</p>
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		<title>By: Ethics, situations, and the like - Objectively True</title>
		<link>http://www.objectivelytrue.com/ethics-and-the-challenge-of-situationist-pyschology/comment-page-1/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethics, situations, and the like - Objectively True</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] because I would like to see how the existing points play out in discussion. My article can be found here, and there is room for discussion of the article or topic in general here, if you feel so [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] because I would like to see how the existing points play out in discussion. My article can be found here, and there is room for discussion of the article or topic in general here, if you feel so [...]</p>
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